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"ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. Coming up: the president is expected to announce the end of the war tomorrow, but does that mean the fighting is done? Former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger weighs, in coming up. But first, should General Tommy Franks be tried as a war criminal? General Franks just found himself a target of the case in Belgium, accusing him of just that. An attorney plans to file the case on behalf of some Iraqis who claim to be victims of the war. Do they have a case or will this just straighten -- or I should say strengthen Bush's case against any kind of international court? Joining us now, attorney Stanley Cohen. This is why the president doesn't want to be party to international courts so he's not hauled up on charges, so that reckless suits -- and Belgium is a country you can sue anybody for anything. That's why it's being done there. Do you support suing the president? Do you support suing Tommy Franks as war criminals? STANLEY COHEN, ATTORNEY: I support the rule of law. And the reality of it is, under international law and the Geneva Conventions, a case can be brought, will be brought and let the courts decide. COLMES: You're supporting this? You're supporting the idea of doing this? COHEN: I don't have a problem. I think there's more than sufficient evidence that the military targeted civilian populations, destroyed hospitals. And the notion of preemption violates international law. COLMES: I'm against preemption, I'm against that foreign policy. I was against this war. I think it's a bad idea from a foreign policy perspective. But to start sitting here after the fact and say we should try Bush as a war criminal, try Franks as a war criminal... COHEN: Why are you and George Bush afraid of the rule of law? Let the courts run the courts. COLMES: It's not the rule of law. This is -- you're chasing your tail on this. COHEN: The Nuremberg trials happened after World War II. COLMES: You compare this to Nuremberg? COHEN: If you were in Iraq. I you were one of the thousands of Iraqis who were killed, women and children, you might be a little bit upset here. COLMES: Wait a minute, if you're comparing it to Nuremberg, does that mean you're comparing Bush to Hitler? COHEN: I'm not comparing them. COLMES: You're saying Nuremberg. COHEN: I am saying that what happened to Iraqi civilians, thousands of them, men, women and children, violated international law. And it's in every way comparable to Nuremberg. COLMES: Comparable to Nuremberg. Then you're making a Hitler analogy, which is totally out of line. Are you suggesting we purposely targeted civilians? COHEN: Absolutely. COLMES: Purposely? COHEN: Absolutely. COLMES: The goal of our military was to... COHEN: I am absolutely suggesting that there were hospitals targeted, infrastructures targeted, people turned around while the looting took place, and it was all part of the Bush agenda. COLMES: We know Iraqis were hiding in civilian targets and our goal was to get the -- hold on, our goal was to get the Iraqi military. COHEN: I see. COLMES: You're saying something very different, though. You're saying our goal was to go after Iraqi civilians and the infirm in hospitals. Do you believe that was our goal? COHEN: I say just as Israel has targeted hospitals and it's targeted ambulances to spread their particular political agenda, you have situations here, not that Stanley Cohen has said, others have said, hospitals, schools, universities, infrastructures, it violates U.S. law. It violates international law. COLMES: In the interest of being fair and balanced, it's interesting to me how you attack Israel, attack the United States for doing these dastardly deeds, but you never say the Palestinians do some of the same things, the Iraqis did some of the same things. COHEN: I'm not a friend of Saddam. I'm not supporting Saddam and I'm glad that Saddam is gone. But there's a difference between violating international law to accomplish a political end and that's what Bush did. COLMES: What should happen to President Bush and Tommy Franks? COHEN: Listen, if I case can be made on international law, let the chips fall where they may. COLMES: You support this case, you're an attorney. You're talking about rule of law. What should be the appropriate punishment or fine? What do you want to see happen to them? COHEN: If, in fact, there is a rule of law that is applicable and they violated it, as George Bush says, we are a country of laws. Well, Mr. President, if you can talk about being a country of laws... COLMES: You're ducking my question. What do you want the punishment to be? COHEN: The punishment is, if in fact they're found to violate international law, Mr. Franks can be locked up the way we locked up Serbian... HANNITY: First of all, get a close-up shot of this guy. Because I want all of America to see, we don't need human rights lectures from you, Mr. Cohen... COHEN: Nor from you. HANNITY: Considering you represent Hamas, a group -- you were the lawyer for them, a group that targets innocent men, women, and children in Israel. COHEN: George Bush... HANNITY: Who are you to lecture anybody about human rights? COHEN: First of all, I don't represent Hamas. I represented the head of the political wing of Hamas for many years. HANNITY: Thank you. COHEN: George Bush has killed more women and children in the last 22 months than Hamas ever dreamed of. If you were an Afghani, if you were an Iraqi who lost a child, who lost a wife, who lost a kid to a U.S. geopolitical policy, you would be furious. HANNITY: What has happened to you? You lost your soul. COHEN: My soul? HANNITY: Where is your soul as a human being that you represent a terror group that kills women and children? COHEN: You know what? You want to know what, where is the United States? A month ago -- no, six months ago the United States... HANNITY: You don't have a soul. You don't have a soul. COHEN: Six months ago the United States said Indonesia's bad. Now they're great, why? Because they're supporting the United States. Every time George Bush finds someone who supports him, he's a good guy. If you're with me no matter what I do, you're wonderful. Ariel Sharon, the man of peace, George Bush hugs. HANNITY: You don't think the Iraqi people are better off? COHEN: You know what the reality is, I admit that the Iraqis who getting killed today for exercising democratic ideals are better off... HANNITY: Is it you hate this president or that you hate America? COHEN: I love America. This president is a joke. This president's got more blood on his hands than anyone... HANNITY: Based on your standards, because you're talking about this, quote, Geneva Convention, based on your standards in World War II when we bombed Dresden or Tokyo or Hiroshima, Nagasaki, so then we should have tried Truman, FDR, Patton, Eisenhower... COHEN: Truman violated international law and was a war criminal when he dropped two atom bombs on the Japanese, that's correct. And Dresden, with the fire bombings. Absolutely. The difference is, war crimes are historically accepted by people like you when you win. When you win, you get to say it's OK. When you lose, well, you're a war criminal. The reality of it is, you're just basing your entire analysis on whether or not it's good or bad for your political agenda. HANNITY: Something has -- I don't know in the short period of time I had with you, something has happened to you to make -- here you are, a guy that supports terrorists. COHEN: I don't support terrorists. HANNITY: You actually look into this camera. COHEN: I am an attorney. HANNITY: You're the lawyer for Hamas! COHEN: I am an attorney. HANNITY: Hamas, terror. COHEN: I know you would prefer that the only lawyers are those that support you and George Bush and anyone else is not a lawyer. And I know you'd like to flush the Constitution because the Constitution is inconsistent with your rhetoric and your flag waving. That's the problem. HANNITY: Not at all. Not at all. You ever read article 38 of the Geneva Conventions? COHEN: You ever read article 4? That's the problem. Absolutely. HANNITY: Because it absolutely contradicts everything you're saying. COHEN: No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Ever read article four of the Geneva Convention, because it contradicts everything you say? HANNITY: America has been able to preserve, protect and defend liberty and freedom for more people. There's more freedom... COHEN: You want to know what? You want to know what? No, no, no. It's people like you that support policies of slaughtering women and children everywhere. Ask the Iraqis who were slaughtered today. Ask the Afghanis that were slaughtered. COLMES: OK. We've got to go. Good to see you." (Fox News Channel,
April 30, 2003)
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