Phone Interview by Dave Sagarin With Joe Szakos - June 25, 2004

What was your feeling about working with the American Candidate people?

I actually think we can learn a lot from this experience. Of course we understand that the goal for the producers is entertainment. And the goal for a grass-roots citizens group is change, not entertainment. Sometimes our interests might overlap, but they're different.

The producers pitched us [before the show came to Charlottesville] by telling us that the show would do us good, in that it would 'get a lot of people involved.' But I'll tell you, it's dangerous for a group to be told what's good for them. They told us it would be a good thing for VERM; they told the Gay and Lesbian Rights people it would be good for them.

But for a group like VOP--our goals are not met by some reality TV show. [Although] we were polite and tried to help them meet other people they might actually be able to help.

[I know] people are looking at reality TV, but we should focus on trying to get people involved in the real things …. VOP will focus on real politics, real issues--finding a common energy in the community.

Are the individual American Candidates in any way like Kerry or Bush or Nader?

When you look at a presidential campaign and see the time and energy a candidate has to spend, these candidates are really very far removed from that kind of investment.

You know, [at VOP] candidates call us, and say they need our help. And we say, 'Who are you?' 'What do you stand for?'

But I think [American Candidate] goes to the worst part of the political discourse--I want to know what's happening, and they seem to be more into secrecy. I'm concerned with being involved in this whole thing, because you know, you're being taped for two hours, and one flip comment and that's all that gets on the air.

Well, can there be any benefit in it?

It's a really shallow approach to something that's really important--I don't know that any person sitting in the audience is going to get something out of it.

Let me tell you how it should be. In January VOP took a group of students to Columbia, South Carolina [to the Democratic presidential primary candidates' debate] and they saw real grass-roots leaders ask questions, and they learned a lot. And they saw the primary candidates try to give thoughtful answers with a factual basis.

You had unfiltered questions, and you saw that what they answered was important and how they answered was important.

I don't think [American Candidate] accurately reflects that kind of process. I'm concerned that what we saw with the American Candidate people was kind of a desperate attempt, you know, 'quick, what's the right thing for me to say?'

For VOP with this whole situation, the question is, how much time and energy do we use and what do we get out of it? I'm afraid it's real easy to abuse a community. So they were calling us, before they came here. And when I asked the producers, 'what do we get out of it?' I stopped getting phone calls.'

- Joe Szakos, Executive Director, Virginia Organizing Project